Mr. Horowitz has authored numerous books, and is an expert on how to make your marketing dollar get the largest return for your efforts. He has numerous websites showcasing not only his books, but also great “tid bits” of information for the average company and individual. He has just finished his latest book, Grassroots Marketing for Authors and Publishers, which was endorsed by both John Kremer and Dan Poynter (who we have previously interviewed). So, we thought that we would learn a bit more about Mr. Horowitz, his experiences, and books:

[Bookhitch]: You have been described as an “ethical marketing expert, writer, speaker, consultant, community organizer, [and] frugalist”. What was your most “frugal” marketing effort that brought about the greatest results?

[Shel Horowitz]: I've got to pick just one? It would probably be my active participation in Internet discussion groups. This is not a quick-fix marketing method but provides very powerful long-term results. Over the last 12 years, the vast majority of my copywriting/consulting clients, a substantial portion of my book sales, and many of my speaking gigs have come from this method. It takes only time, no capital.

I suspect that the leads I've gotten from discussion groups out pull my website, my speaking, and my exposure in other media combined.

[BH]: In any given industry, the rule of thumb is to get the largest return for you marketing dollar. Given the increasingly competitive book industry, what is the simplest piece of advice you can give to publishers and authors trying to accomplish the same goal?

[SH]: Look at your website as a visitor would look at it. You want something that provides high value, is easy to navigate, can be found by search engines easily, and leads the visitor to a buying decision. BTW, in Grassroots Marketing for Authors and Publishers, I discuss seven different models for a good author website. But remember that websites are only one small fraction of what's possible in cyberspace. I discuss a whole lot of other methods too, both online and off. And remember that the Web, in fact the Internet in general (which includes much more than the Web) is an arena where the individual author can actually outperform the huge corporation--one of the rarities in the marketing tool bag.

In my case, I have multiple websites that follow different of these models. Grassrootsmarketingforauthors.com is a modified sales letter site that combines the long sales letter approach with a triage method to give people the right version for their needs.

Principledprofit.com is a straight up buy-my-book site, with tons of testimonials, reviews, excerpts, etc.

Frugalmarketing.com and frugalfun.com are 'authority' sites that sell books almost as an afterthought

My wife's site for her novels is a warm and fuzzy author-focused site to build fan loyalty.

And some of my sites aren't about books at all, like the site for the Business Ethics Pledge that has now reached 30 countries.

[BH]: Your books have been published through a large name publisher, smaller publishing houses and under your own imprint. Why did you decide to publish under your own imprint?

[SH]: Each book has its own best path. As it happens, my first, third, and fifth books were published by traditional publishers, with an advance and the whole bit--and my second, fourth and sixth were self-published. If that had come about through any sort of pattern,

I'd have had a publisher for my seventh book. But knowing how little marketing help I would get, and knowing how well-branded I am in my key market, it certainly made sense to self-publish this one. One of the biggest reasons to do a book with a traditional publisher is to establish credibility--but having already published with Simon &

Schuster and other houses, I already have that credibility. There are other books I'd like to do that I would only write if I get a good publisher and a big advance, because they would require a whole lot of research and legwork, and because one of them in particular really needs mainstream distribution--but for this one it made sense to do it myself.

Interestingly, the book is actually jointly published by my own imprint and by Infinity. I sell my edition on the Web, through my newsletters, and personal appearances. Infinity's edition is on Amazon and is available to bookstores. This is my first time publishing with a subsidy house, and it came about because I showed the cover last year at BEA to two executives I know at Infinity--my hope was that they'd want to make a bulk purchase for all their authors. One of them, John Harnish, requested the manuscript and came back to me and said he really wanted to publish it-- but I also wanted to publish it. So, since I'm not all that good at selling through bookstores anyway and find it a big hassle, I gave them that market. And John made the numbers work for me; I will make out quite decently on any books they sell. However, I couldn't afford to get all my copies through them, as their edition is significantly more expensive to print than mine. Even printing as needed, I'm paying 2/3 as much per copy through my own sources--and if I went to offset I'd cut even that cost at least in half.

[BH]: You have written 4 books on marketing. Your fifth book on marketing entitled “Grassroots Marketing for Authors and Publishers” is aimed specifically at individuals, and companies within the book industry. What made you decide to write this book?

[SH]: For about ten years already, people have been telling me I should do a marketing book just for writers and/or publishers. I've done four others for a general audience, but I do know quite a bit about the differences between marketing books and marketing other kinds of things--and the book marketing world *is* quite different.

One of the bits of advice I give people is to think in terms of series--so I decided to take my own advice and do a second Grassroots Marketing book. If this is successful, there are many other niches I can go after. I'm totally capable of writing Grassroots Marketing for Community Organizers as well as a few others, and there are there niches where I'd seek out someone with expertise to write or co-author with me.

[BH]: It is stated on the site showcasing your new book that “an author or publisher releasing a book today has to work four times as hard to get noticed as authors and publishers did just sixteen years ago.” As you have experience as both an author and marketer, what would be the most relevant advice you could give to authors who are becoming aware that they also need to have marketing knowledge to drive sales of their books? Do you think that having a website and having payment options available is advisable?

[SH]: Yes, but that's only the beginning. Authors really need to make the shift to thinking like a marketer, always.

That means, to name a few examples:

• Always be on the lookout for how your book/issue can tie in to the latest news, which journalists you should pitch to get coverage, and how to pitch so you get their attention (neither too hypey nor too flat)
  
  
• Think strategically about how you can assist business associates whom you'd like to help you, and propose a venture that helps both of you.
  
  
• Build relationships with people who could help you later--long before you want to call on them for a favor (this technique helped me to do a one-day Amazon campaign that cost me nothing, because I had already built relationships with a number of influential e-zine editors--some consultants charge as much as ten grand to do this)
  
  

[BH]: In your opinion, how involved should an author be in the process of marketing their own books? Should this level of involvement differ if a publisher, or agent provides marketing services?

[SH]: Even if you're traditionally published, much if not most of the marketing oomph will usually come from the author. Just ask Christopher Paolini, author of the formerly self-published Random House bestseller, Eragon. The kid (I think he was 16 when he first published it) is a tireless promoter.

I don't understand why some big publishers handcuff their authors with restrictions on selling directly, etc. For those authors, you can at least join the Amazon affiliate program and get a little commission on top of the little royalty on each book you sell. If you know an agent who gets involved with marketing once the book is sold to a publisher, I want that name! Have never come across anyone like that.

But ultimately, you as the author are the one with the passion. My Simon & Schuster book received very little publicity help from the publisher. Ditto my wife, D. Dina Friedman's two novels with big New York houses. She's out there hustling and that's why the books are doing well.

[BH]: Given your passion for business ethics and social change, would you say that it is time for a change in the traditional book industry when publishers and authors, given all their marketing efforts, may only receive $6.30 (less all expenses) and $2.70, respectively, for a book that sells for $20?

[SH]: Or less, using the traditional model. Most mid-list authors with traditional publishers don't see anything close to $2.70, and don't see anything until their advance has earned out.

More of an issue, I think is that books you think are sold don't *stay* sold. Returns make the bookstore channel simply unworkable for many authors. Also, with so many titles out there and the system stacked against all but a handful, it would be imperative to find other sales channels.

You mention the ethics work--my book on the subject Principled Profit: Marketing That Puts People First discusses many ways to form ethical and mutually beneficial partnerships that can open up many alternative channels. This, I think, is critical.

[BH]: Is there anything else you would like to add?

[SH]: One of the cool things about being an author is it makes you newsworthy--and here, again, we can compete with the big dogs. I've gotten publicity for myself and/or my clients in such places as the New York Times Wall Street Journal, Entrepreneur, Woman's Day, Reader's Digest, L.A. Times, and a gazillion more. This is a very good way to build a reputation, though somewhat harder to translate into books sold.

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We would like to extend our thanks to Mr. Horowitz for taking time to answer a few of our questions. If you would like to learn more about Shel, then you can visit one of his numerous, valuable, websites mentioned above.

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